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Tuesday, August 30, 2011

I told u I was hardcore

Okay, guys, help me out with something. This might seem like a really stupid question, especially considering the business I'm in, but what exactly is "hardcore"?

People often use the word, and when they do, they seem to expect that the listener will understand exactly what they mean, with no ambiguity or possibility of confusion. I hear it a lot from fans: "when's the next hardcore video?" I hear it a lot from potential players when I ask about their limits: "no hardcore." Okay, so straight-up boy-girl sex is hardcore, i think everyone agrees on that. What about blowjobs? Handjobs? Girl-on-girl sex? Girl-on-girl sex with a strap-on? Guy-on-girl oral? Girl-on-girl oral? Anal plugs? Fingering? Anal fingering? Vibrator without penetration? Vibrator with penetration? Are any of these things hardcore, and if so, which?

Is there really universal agreement on this question, and I've just never learned the answer? Or is it appropriate for me to respond to a girl who says, "I won't risk doing hardcore" with "just what the hell do you mean by that?"


Jack said...

Hardcore pornography commonly includes explicit depictions of sex acts such as vaginal or anal penetration, cunnilingus, fellatio and ejaculation and/or extreme fetish acts.
(at least that's what wikipedia says)

I agree that there will always be some misunderstandings. If I asked for hardcore I would have meant rather vaginal sex than "just" a blow-job.

Red said...

Yeah, Jack, exactly. I keep having girls say, "I'll risk anything short of hardcore" and I'm all, like, "what, so you will or you won't finger yourself? You will or you won't finger another girl, or let another girl finger you, or let a guy finger you?" This stuff is hard.

Anonymous said...

Just make a list of every possible senario, then have the model cross off what they will not do. That way its just "part of the pre film legal process" and not a complicated conversation.

Red said...

Yeah, I've thought about that (although please sign your posts), but what worries me is this. Some of my girls, some of my best girls, have fairly tame limits. This can be a good thing because it means they're more likely to blush and be truly embarrassed by the things they'll have to do. But I'm afraid that if I hand some these girls a complete questionnaire with things like:

I [ ] will [ ] will not engage in double-vaginal double-anal penetration with (check all that apply) [ ] men [ ] women wielding strap-ons [ ] robots [ ] vegetables [ ] barnyard animals

it might cause some of them to flee in terror. Need some way of emphasizing that it's perfectly okay for them to cross off nearly the whole damned list.

realnot said...

Easy solution to that - read the list to them and check things off yourself. This also allows you to skip or gloss over parts that you can assume are going to be "no" based on previous answers. If she's not willing to take her clothes off, you can probably assume that sex with barnyard animals is off the list too.

Anonymous said...


Good question. I had always assumed that, like Justice Potter Stewart, I'd know hardcore when I saw it, but now you've got me doubting myself.

When you have asked the "no hardcore" women about things that you consider to be in a gray area, what was the resonse? What has there been a consensus on, and what has divided them?

Maybe you could make up a "What is Hardcore?" questionnaire asking about just the borderline stuff for anyone who gives that answer in the future.


Lotfw said...

I guess I have always went by the movies (I know unrated now blurs the lines) but 'softcore' to me is full nudity, sex acts without showing penetration or boners.

Hardcore..... everything else

This doesn't help does it :)

Anonymous said...


first time poster here. I just recently found out about this site and I simply love it. Thx for the great videos.

As for the hardcore stuff. I've always considered down right sex with penetration hardcore as in male/female or female/female including a strap on. Everything else doesn't really belong in the hardcore section.

I think having everybody fill in a list of what they would be down for is a good idea but as you said it might scare them away. And I guess reading it to them or going through the whole list with every single participant just takes up alot of time and effort.

However I can understand the people that come up and ask for more hardcore scenes. But I myself enjoy the "humiliating" aspects of the forfeits. Anything that woul go past ordinary male/female or girl/girl scenes would probably be a no go for me. There is different sites for that.

Also I don't know if this belongs here but I always thought it would be a nice idea to have a game including 2-4 players with one loser in the end. Every player has a preset amount of clothespins (like 4 or 5) which they would pin onto the poor loser after the game.

Best regards,

Anonymous said...

One suggestion for the form is to have a scale answer rather than a simple yes/no.

Would you be willing to risk XXXXX?
1 - Yes
2 - Only with a high reward for winning
3 - Unlikely
4 - Absolutely not!

That way, you have more of a feel about what games they would be best in. That will help you gauge what they would agree to, and under what circumstances, and also how genuine the reactions will be to losing.


Mindworm said...

Difficult question, as I think everyone has his/her own thoughts of what's hardcore and what's not. When I hear the word hardcore, I think of sexual acts where a penis is involved and that another person somehow stimulates this penis. I see that this definition may come off short though, as girl-girl actions featuring for instance a strap-on, also might be quite hardcore. I see your dilemma, as the girls in question might have a completely different view of this though, as some might regard anything that goes beyond just stripping naked as hardcore. I think you have to interview your girls though, to get some details regarding what each girl considers hardcore.
Let's say you've got 3 main categories:

- Self play
- Girl-Girl play
- Girl-Boy play

You could first ask the girls what categories they would be interested in doing, and then what the limits within each category would be.

Self play:
- Just showing her nude body without any focus on pussy.
- Posing in a sexual revealing way showing pussy and asshole without any touching.
- Rubbing pussy (and maybe asshole) with fingers.
- Playing with toys including vaginal (and maybe anal) penetration.
- Showing body at public places with little or no clothes, or the risk of this.

Girl-Girl play:
- Light play as using babyoil, caressing of tits, kissing, use of marker and so on.
- Spanking.
- Being sexually stimulated by hands by another girl.
- Having or performing oral sex on another girl, including 69.
- Vaginally stimulated by another girl using a dildo or vibrator.
- Anally stimulated by another girl using a dildo or vibrator.
- Analingus, either perform or being performed on by another girl.
- Vaginally use of strap-on.
- Anally use of strap-on.

Girl-Boy play:
- Light play as using babyoil, caressing of tits, kissing, use of marker and so on.
- Spanking.
- Being vaginally stimulated by hands by a guy.
- Being anally stimulated by hands by a guy.
- Getting oral sex.
- Giving oral sex.
- Ejaculation.
- Full vaginal intercourse.
- Anal intercourse.
- Analingus, either perform or being performed on by a guy.

I might have forgotten some actions that should have been mentioned!

As someone mentioned, it's probably best you do this as an interview, as this will probably make it easier for the girls, and if a girl says no to a specific vaginal action for instance, then the similar anal action, and harder vaginal actions are unlikely, and such questions can be skipped.

Anonymous said...

Well, words themselves can be misleading too. If you asked someone if they would be willing to be paddled they might say 'no way', but if you showed the person some of your prior work they might say 'oh, like that, that's no problem'. Maybe presenting a video portfolio of your work at an interview is an idea to address this - I think you said a while ago that either Lily or Julie watched a forfeit on a clip you played and they kinda eagerly whispered to you that they'd be willing to risk the same forfeit.

I hope I don't sound duh, but some models do have portfolios too.


Reno said...

I always believed hardcore to be anything showing insertion into the vagina or anal orifice. But I agree with a lot of the other guys that you should probably do a quick question and answer. You were able to get one girl to change her mind, it took you awhile, but you were able to change her mind.

Red said...

realnot: Well, I never said the problem was insoluble, and by now I've got plenty of practice in solving it. I can still do better.

By the way, it was you who asked for a pros-vs-amateurs game, right? I said I probably wouldn't do it, but after I said it I realized I had stuff already on film that pretty much fits the bill. I'll let you know when it comes out.

Dex: Just like in this thread, the "no hardcore" girls seem to have different ideas of what constitutes hardcore. There hasn't been much of a consensus. Masturbation is a key differentiator: some no-hardcore girls will masturbate, others won't. Some will let another girl masturbate them (or will masturbate another girl) and some won't.

Lotfw: Actually, it does help, at least as far as my larger point that everyone seems to have a clear idea of what "hardcore" is, and a lot of people seem to assume that everyone else shares their definition and is just as clear on it, but there's actually a lot of ambiguity.

Alex: Welcome! I love seeing new faces on the blog, and I'm very glad you like my videos. I'm always trying hard to improve them, and I hope that you'll like the videos to come even more.

One of the ways I try to improve is to keep soliciting ideas and suggestions from the fans. Since I've still been too lazy to set up any sort of robust community site, this blog's as good a place as any to post them. (You can also email them to me at red@lostbets.com) As a matter of fact, I have a game on film waiting to be postproduced where the poor loser gets clothespins pinned to her. (The winners pinned the losers to a ribbon before attaching her to the skin, so after they're all clipped on, they can all be pulled off at once. Ouch.)

DF and Mindworm: Good ideas. I'll incorporate them into the new-player process. That's another axis to consider too, for the categories other than solo play: a player might be willing to do things with a specific partner that she wouldn't be willing to do with a stranger. And a girl might be willing to do things with a stranger who's got a recent clean bill of health than one who hasn't.

Finally, to everybody else, thanks for the interesting discussion. We should start a campaign to get a bright-line definition of "hardcore" universally accepted.